senate side. he is headed again to go talk with house intelligence committee investigators, voluntarily and again a little bit different here, under oath this time as we expect to see him walk down this hallway any moment. kushner didn't say much over the last 24 hours, at least on capitol hill about this. although he did make those comments on the driveway of the white house as we see kushner here, i'm looking to see if it's his lawyer with him again, kushner saying he did not collude, definitive, standing in the west wing after that first discussion with senate intelligence committee staffers. we are watching him head in, casey hunt, pull up your audible, what will you be looking from kushner, potentially comments at the white house, we we heard from him yesterday, we will see if he answers shouted questions from reporters rovt. >> reporter: forgive me, i'm keeping an eye on what's going

on heerndz me here as we wait to talk to republicans on the senate side on healthcare, but on your question about jared kushner, i do think there is going to be a heightened level of scrutiny and pressure for kushner, because these will be members. remember, he talked to committee staff yesterday when he testified or was interviewed, excuse me, before the senate intelligence committee. so this is going to be something. we we heard from michael caputo, you remember the other person who has, former trump adviser who had been questioned in a closed session from -- by the house intelligence committee, came out very critically saying he felt members mischaracterized his testimony after the fact and tried to warn trump associates away from testifying in this kind of a forum. so to a certain extent, the stakes are a little different for kushner today. there will be questions whether or not these members think his testimony is consistent with the information that they have at their disposal. these investigations, remember,

have been running concurrently are still distinctly different investigation. so to a certain extent, you will have a different set of interests from these members. remember it's the house side focused on this question of unmasking names. i think that may be a topic we hear more about today, at least from republicans particularly interested in that. but again the stakes still very, very high for kushner t. rules a little bit different. there are, of course, penalties, potential consequences for lying to congress in any form, but being under oath with the members is a key stings. >> casey hunt, i want you to stand by, there is a lot of happening on capitol hill. we watched jared kushner walk into the house side. this is him getting out of his suv just in the last 45 seconds ago. you watched it here live. this is a rerack of that tape as we say it. casey, it's not just jared kushner who is on the hill today. nbc news has learned from a

source close to paul manafort in the next 24 hours, palm manafort the former trump campaign chair is expected to be on capitol hill to talk with senate investigators specifically about that june 2016 meeting at trump tower. and all of this is happening as senate judiciary issues a subpoena for manafort in the last couple of minutes here. you spoke with senator grassley about this, right? >> i did. and the senate judiciary committee has subpoenaed paul manafort now to testify before the committee. remember they have an open hearing tomorrow morning, where they have requested that he and don jr. both testify here. actually i'm going to walk a bit. senator dianne feinstein is approaching our cameras here. he has agreed to be a part of this, essentially it takes her and senator grassley to agree to these subpoenas. senator, can we ask you quickly about those subpoenas you have just issued to palm manafort?

>> i wonder if we can talk to you later about it. i'm just figuring it out right now. >> reporter: thank you very much, senator. senator diane feinstein without comments she and senator grassley the chairman of this committee have just announce thad they have issued. this is a little of a dispute between committees, halle, it seems, i know you have been doing reporting on this, there had been an agreement for manafor to the assist the senate intelligence committee in their investigation. this judiciary committee wanted to see the documents and information surrounding that. essentially, there seems to be no agreement that was made on that, so the judiciary committee said, okay, fine, we will compel you to come up here and do what we are asking you to do t. judiciary committee is a very powerful committee up here on capitol hill and the fact that there is bipartisan agreement between grassley and feinstein to do this, i think is pretty significant and one place where the judiciary committee is focused is the department of

justice, you could see more coming out of this committee. >> prior to this news breaking, a source told me paul manafor is the working to accommodate all these requests he is getting from members of congress. let's set the stage for a second t. reason you are stalking the hallways on the senate side is not because of what's happening with jared kushner at least not today, even though we know right now she behind closed doors talking with members of the house intelligent committee, being interviewed by them. we know we may in the next 48 hours see palm manafort and take another look at jared kushner arriving. we know this morning, the other dominant headlines is healthcare. right? we don't know what a bill will look like if, in fact, senators even get to the point where they decide to start debate in the first place, that tees us up to what will be happening, that is the expectation we will hear from senator mitch mcconnell, what they plan to put out. what this vote to start debate could be and casey the big

return of senator john mccain, he's back, days after getting the diagnosis of brain cancer. it sounds like he will probably support a motion to move forward on the debate. again, that's like the very first hurdle. the senate has to get past that before they can look at the bill in the first place, senator angus king was out this morning. he was breaking down what could be in the senate health care bill in the first place, here he is. >> let me give you a quick synopsis of what i know about the bill that we're going to be voting on this afternoon. >> ha, ha, ha. wow. >> i'm serious. >> silence from the senator king there, casey. can you fill in the blank? what is happening and who are we looking for in the next two hours here to help us gauge where this fight actually is? >> reporter: we can't fill in the blanks for you, halle, on what the policy will be ultimately. what we do know is that they're going to debate, they're going to vote to open debate on the

house version of the bill and then there's no clear path forward from there. it's essentially going to be something of a free for all on the senate floor. there may be a vote on straight repeal. there may be a vote on repeal and replace. there may be a vote on repeal and replace with the ted cruz amendment. it's something where people don't have a good sense here, instead the argument from leaders, from the white house is now, hey, we can't do anything if we don't get on the bill, that's senate speak for open up debate on the floor, there is a sense among leadership that may change the calculations people have been making, it may allow them to put additional pressure on members, members to put their on stamp on this, potentially, but ill auto hinges on this make or break procedural vote. this is, you know, somebody said to me privately the man, the myth, the legend, john mccable, coming back to be potentially the 50th vote on this health care legislation. the mark short the legislative affairs direct ore earlier was

on tv earlier today. he said, well, pittsburgh cane will be the 50, 51st vote. that's the most optimistic scenario for republicans here. although i have to tell you there is a growing sense on capitol hill this is something that may go through. this motion to proceed may be if better shape than it was necessarily initially thought. but that doesn't necessarily make the underlying math for the policy better. so a make or break do or die day for republicans on capitol hill, if they are open to debate. ten we got a long unpredictable process ahead of us on this question. >> casey hunt. i will let you chase down senators who will be dipping back into your cameras. we are watching over on the house side, not just jared kushner, house speaker paul ryan set to hold a news conference any second, we will bring that to you. we expect most of the questions to involve president trump. frankly, as we have seen week after week, specifically on health care, you talk about health care policies, somebody

who informally advised senator lonnie chin. he served under president george w. bush. you have been listening to this conversation where the math is here. who supports the motion to proceed? who supports the bill? how is this math going to change from last week when this whole thing seemed to fall apart? >> reporter: well, what's changed between last week and this week is a couple of thing. first of all, you had a number of outside groups getting on senators on the fence, look, this is a crucial vote, not on the policy mind you but the vote to actually go to consideration of the bill. all of these groups have key voted. this vote, in other words, they will be watching carefully where senators are on this vote. that's important. the administration has come in wrong as well. they have issue added a minstration policy, one of their first basically saying we will be watching how senators are voting on the professional motion and the president yesterday in his remarks was the clearest in his advocacy for the

senate bill that he's ever been. i think the political terrain has changed if not the policy terrain. >> get out your crystal ball. if this thing goes through, if senators decide to support debate, what is the bill they end up voting on going to look like? >> reporter: well, i think it's going to look very much like the bill, the last version of this bcra, the senate bill that includes some of the spending reductions in medicaid the transition of medicaid to a cap allocation where the federal government capped its contribution to states. you will see a relatively ro bust system of tax credits to help people at the lower end afford coverage. you will probably see this ted cruz amendment, which would allow for states to offer for, for insurers to offer estate plans that have a more basic benefit structure. so i think it will look very similar to what we saw out of the senate i guess about four or five days ago. >> lonnie chen, thank you very much for joining us here. let's talk about the bottom line

this morning, because this is a big deal day. not just for republicans on capitol hill as you we heard casey hunted describe, but for president trump. he's talking about the health care site. he got his son-in-law on the hill. he has his attorney general left out to dry on an island as the president goes after him than some of the republicans to go on board. look at this tweet from the president this morning. you have probably seen it, blasting his ag, attacking him. high drama and high stakes. it's an ominous and frankly extraordinarily start of the day if you are jeff sessions, looking at what your boss is saying about you. kristen welker is saying more on all of this. kristen, the president is calling the attorney general weak. he is once again bringing up hillary clinton. will is a drum beat coming from inside that west wing behind you aimed directly at the department of justice. >> reporter: halle, the president has been every day intensifying his attacks against his own attorney general who has

been very clear. he has no plans of resigning or stepping down. president trump's main frustration with the attorney general a, of course, that he recuse himself in the russia investigation. now, we know the behind the scenes the president has even started to look at talk about possible replacements, names that are being batted about. rudy guiliani, ted cruz, both of them saying that there's nothing to see here, ted cruz insisting that he hasn't been contacted by anyone within the administration about this. rudy guiliani making it very clear he supports jeff session's decision to recuse himself. he thinks that was not only the right thing to do but the legal thing to do. the president top -- one of his top advisers, duke director anthony scaramucci was pressed about this on the hugh hewitt show.l take a look at that exchange. >> it's clear the president wanting him gone.

>> reporter: one of the things that caught our attention amid all of this discussion about the attorney general is today the president as you pointed out criticized him for not going after hillary clinton effectively. and what's notable about that is that as the president-elect back in november, mr. trump said that he had no intentions of trying to open up an investigation into hillary clinton. so potentially, a little bit of mixed messaging on that point there. the question will hold -- the president will hold a joint news conference later on today. as you know, this afternoon, with the prime minister of lebanon. we will get to hopefully ask him about all of this. >> kristen, it's a busy day at the white house. thank you very much for that. watching too some of the reaction on the hill from this with senator lindsey graham

tweeting a couple minutes ago, the jeff sessions comments from president trump as i read them here. highly inappropriate. >> that is a statement now from lindsey graham's office. i want to bring in the folks hanging out with me for the next 50 busy minutes. the political reporter for the guardian and politico magazine tim alberta. let's pick up where kristen left off, tying it to the next big news of the day, which is health care. some of these republicans worked with jeff sessions, they voted for him, six months in, they are seeing him essentially left hung out to twist in the winds here by the president. >> halle, you used the word extraordinary. you can't overstate how extraordinary a president's public attacks on his own attorney general are. we are used to using that word with trump. this really crosses a bridge in the minds of many republicans. you have to remember, this is not a president that has a lot of good will when it comes to his own party, those looking no

advance his legislative agenda. he marked six months in office. this is a day where republicans want the president to focus on health care. so far he has been very disengaged and they have grown tired to responding to the outrage of the day. they are concerned about the ramifications if he did fire jeff sessions. >> we seen a president engage in the sense of that public event yesterday. we are also when you talk about republicans and wanting to talk about their agenda, paul ryan is about to talk. we are watching the gop leadership conference, tim, you want to bet every question will be about the president? >> okay. so the broadest possible context, right t. make or break moment of repeal and replace obamacare. >> is seven years in the making promise. >> as casey said earlier, a do or die moment. how does the president start his day? before 7:00 a.m. by attacking on twitter two of the nation's chief law enforcement officials the acting fbi director and the attorney general on a day the senate is set to take this

make-or-break vote. to step back fur, i think any of these three things we have been talking about in the first five of ten minutes the son-in-law the president on capitol hill, investigating -- teching rather in front of investigators under oath. that's story one. story two, the health care vote that's about to happen in the senate, which spoke of the magnitude of that vote. story number three, of course, is the president's aforementioned on the tax on his chief law enforcement officials. any of these three stories in any administration would be one of the single biggest stories, something historians would talk about for years, they're all happening on the same they. >> this is a day, write about it in your diaries, all the days especially this one. is this relationship with jeff sessions, again, we talked about the relationship with twice two guys the first senator to come out for him when that was not a popular thing to do. >> he put the make america great again hat on. >> does this relationship have a

way to get past this? >> there is no way to imagine how you would get past these level of public attacks, which have only intensified in recent days. jeff sessions has not only been a loyal supporter of trump through the early campaign, he has through the justice department advanced trump's agenda with cracking down on immigration enforcement. he defended the travel ban, but that had more to do with the way the white house had craft thad policy, not jeff sessions and the justice department's own defense of that policy. also i think one thing to watch is it looks like trump is eyeing a recess appointment if he were to fire sessions, if session is poised to resign, if trump were to make a recess appointment, that nominee would circumvent the usual senate confirmation and avoid tough questions about russia and how they would oversee the investigation into the trump campaign. >> it is like six steps down the line at least for now. i want to mention we are

watching kevin mccarthy he is speaking -- paul ryan took the pedium. we will listen in, when he starts to take questions, we will bring that to you live to pick up where sabrina is leaving off, let's say attorney general sessions gets so frustrate thad he quits although at this point our reporting from the department of justice, that's not the case, or let's say the president does fire him, tim, who is the next attorney general? >> i don't think we have any idea. i think obviously there was a report last night he was considering ted cruz. >> i thought he said nothing true about it. no calls, no nothing. >> why on earth would ted cruz want that job? why would anybody want the job, frankly, at this point. halle, this is -- we are -- to say we are in uncharted waters here would be a gross understatement. >> explain that, right. i think there may be some people who look at the discussion what the president is tweeting what the president is saying about his attorney general, some of his supporters might say, leave him alone, let him say what he

wants to say about his own people. >> so, for instance, few look at some of the president's most vocal and consistent supporters in conservative media, they have been extremely alarmed over the last week to ten days over the treatment of jeff sessions. just earlier today we saw brent hume from fox news tweeting his disapproval of the president and his treatment of the attorney general and bret hume has come under a quite a bit of fire for what he has stayed by the president and supported the president. that's one instance, talk radio has taken i think a turn against the president over the last week or so. the point being that jeff sexes is somebody who has such an impeccable rep takes on the right in conservative movement politics that a lot of folks who have dismissed the 24 news cycle and called all of is hysterical for our coverage of this white house are now sort of taking a step back and saying, wow! >> let me ask you, tim, you laid out nicely here the big stories of the day, one day that would

be the one story that we would be putting at the headlines. we are going to listen into paul ryan who is taking questions. he so far is talking about securing the borders, about the need to help veterans and so on. i'm listening in for a second here. >> from the legislative branch. he determines who is hired and fire in the executive branch. that's his prerogative f. he has concerns or questions with the attorney general i'm sure he will bring them up with him, himself. >> inaudible question ]. >> it's up to the president to decide what his personnel decisions is and any possible thought that comes from that. if he has concerns about anyone in the conduct of their job, i'm sure he will talk to them directly. yeah. >> [ inaudible questioninaudibl. >> what we're focused on here is doing our jobs. we're not focused on what the department of justice is or is

not doing. we're trying to get our legislative agenda passed. i think the best way to support the president is to move this agenda forward, which is what we all collectively have done. we are not focused on micromanaging the doj. rachel. >> [ inaudible questioninaudibl] >> we, we, the majority of our conferences is for the amendment, as you saw, it didn't have a majority on the floor, a majority, the potential issue is recurring. with respect to these four bills, we have consensus for these four bills. we do not have full consensus on the other eight bills. that's what we are working for. we made substantial progress t. appropriatiators have been working with the whip to get the rest of the members on board so

we anticipate building support for the rest of our bill is going into september. right now, we have consensus on these four bills, consensus on funding our military, military construction, funding our veterans and funding the border wall and the physical barrier we need on the border. that's where we are consensus, we will go and get it and get more later. we are making good progress on. that jonathan. >> [ inaudible questioninaudibl] >>. >> as you know, a budget resolution is an hr res not a resolution, it's not a you

louisiana appropriations with the caps in place require a law change. so a hundredths in and of itself does not do that. where consensus has been reached in the budget committee, which came up with the unanimous republican vote is on these appropriations numbers so we have reached consensus with respect to our appropriations number in the appropriations committee with respect to the ndaa and we have found on the house side consensus on these appropriation numbers that is out of budget committee. the question of whether or not one comes be every the other is an academic exercise because you don't feed a budget to pass appropriations. that's a totally different issue. so we're going to move both simultaneously, i think at the end of the day we will get done in the law. >> narcot[ inaudible question i] >> the budget committee got everyone to talk together f. i were not for diane plaque in the budget committee, we would not have the kind of consensus which

is bringing these four bills to the floor today. thank you. >> you have been watching house speaker paul ryan at his weekly news conference and, frankly, a 50-50 split. paul ryan probably like the end of that press conference than the beginning of it when he was asked about the president's comments on his attorney general essentially going after jeff sessions. you we heard paul ryan who says it's up to the president. he said i'm not going to manage the department of justice from my perch over here on capitol hill. >> this is very much what you seen from paul ryan throughout. visibly uncomfortable and questions about trump in is sense, he gave trump the green light to proceed. he did not express support for firing the attorney general and showing a lack of respect or consideration for the independence of the doj and fbi. >> that very much goes in line with paul ryan thus far. he has let trump be trump and focus on the legislative agenda. you know at the end of the day,

what he wants is trump's signature, he does not want to get on the wrong side of this president. >> paul ryan was reared as a jack kevin happy warrior conservative. did that look like a happy warrior to you? i woke up in wisconsin november 9th. i was with the speaker. i can tell you people were shocked that trump won. after the very, very tumultuous relationship trump and ryan had throughout the campaign, i think the ryan folks were hoping for a reset knowing that he was going to stay on and work with this president who he had been very critical of. i think for ryan it was very simple. donald trump could help him achieve what he wanted to achieve for 25 years in this town, which is tax reform, entitlement reform, paul ryan understood there would be tough moments like this, programs not this tough, but paul ryan thought the juice would be worth squeeze, if, in fact, they could achieve these big things he wanted to achieve as a staffer. i think pull rain is waking up

to the reality those things might not happen. that's why he looks the way he is this morning. >> we we heard from some senators, regarding the other big story of the day health care, over on the house side, paul ryan was just talking, you got jared kushner behind closed doors, speaking with the house intelligence committee. we keep saying it. this is a big deal day. joining us is the director of the homeland security law program at george mason university. so,jameill. i want to talk about paul manafort could be on the hill to speak with investigators as well. congressman eric swellwell. here's what he says he wants to hear from jared kushner. >> if one person with one tie to russia, they have forgotten to disclose it, i think there are innocent explanations, we are seeing a pattern take place so that's what we hope to dive into

today, to corroborate what jared kushner said or discredit it through other evidence. >> you have previously been senior counsel to the house intelligence committee. take us inside the room, how do you hear today congressman different for kushner? >> first, obviously, have you house intelligence committee members as opposed to staff with the senate intelligence committee. i think it will be a lot more intense, i think having a member there is a lot more serious and, of course, while this isn't a formal hearing, what ever jared kushner says as part of an ongoing congressional investigation as it was yesterday and there are laws about testifying or even talking to committee investigators in congress and so, you know, you saw jared kushner being very careful with his statement yesterday, earlier this week. and clearly, he's taking the advice of his lawyers, which is probably a part is move. we'll see what happens next. >> what do you make of kushner's

apparent defense here, he didn't know any better, he got be afc all an innocent accident? >> look, i think he makes a fair point, which it was a crazy time, for the administration and him personally f. you believe his story, you know, he his sustainly submitted the formerly. he left out lots of contacts besides the russian contacts, he updated fairly quickly the fact that he had more contacts he had to report. he is now, he's continued to provide more to the fbi investigators, in the context of the form and publicly both to the american public out with his statement and behind closed doors, at least for now, with the house and senate health committees. >> john man joaquin castro will focus on the digital operation. >> that is not something kushner spoke in his testimony. although he was a part of meeting that in the campaign s. that a line of questioning worth

pursuing? >> look. i don't know enough about the concerns of the digital operation. i saw that news like you mentioned. i know there is talk about the e-mails and the revelations that came up during the campaign. but this whole question about whether the trump campaign was involved with russian -- it seems hard to believe, but then again we're in unprecedented territory here, so we'll see what happens. with these closed door hearings, even though they're behind closed doors, more often than not stories come out behind there. >> that can be unfortunate. it's hard to defend yourself when that happens. we will see what comes out of today's questions. >> it's a little more broadly, jameill, the president is continuing to call all of this a witch hunt essentially in defense of jaris kushner, in defense of his son-in-law's testimony. he tweeted about it. he did very well if proving he did not collude with the russians, the president said. there have been a lot of comparisons to how the clinton's

tried to discredit ken starr in the '90s, this different in your view? is this feeling a little differently to you? >> well, there's a few things here. one, i think the president's reaction comes out of the fact that he sees this as discrediting the entire presidency, in that if there was an issue with the russians, it under mines the spire four years, can you understand why he spun it. at the same time, i do think this sort of defensive sort of throwing elbows reaction is probably the wrong one politically. i'll tell you why the smart play is bob mueller has an investigation, he's a very smart guy. we appointed him. you talk to him about russia, we'll wait until his report comes out. it can be good or bad for the president. it will be a while before it comes out, they will wait to let that play out and let the story go away and focus on the legislative agenda, which isn't happening. >> let me quickly get you on the comments the president isn't making on the attorney general. what can jeff sessions do? can he continue to serve

effectively if he does not have the full support of the president, which he does not. >> look, it's very hard for a capital to support without the full report. rachel brand, these are serious people, who have been around the legal community, have been around capitol hill, have been around administrations before for a long time, they're serious people. they deserve a chance to do the right thing. it's not today when the president's cabinet member versus a back and forth look paul ryan is right, the president has the absolute right to pick who he wants in his cabinet. it's not good on his disconnect. either they need to solve this problem or we need to move on. i think jeff sessions is a serious man. he deserves a chance along with his team to be a good attorney general and along with the justice department. >> thank you for being here. we will keep this conversation going after the break. we want to get into what the ends game could be here with sabrina and tim joining me here on set. what's up with this all out twitter assault and what he

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that was former house speaker john boehner, the video came by the washington post giving what's called a real blunt assessment of his chances he thinks of repeal and replace actually happening over on capitol hill. joining me to talk about health care and much much more is senator bob casey of pennsylvania, joining me now, a member of the senate health committee. thank you for joining us. let's say the republicans if et the vote to start debate. >> that that happens today. what is the democrat's next step? >> well, halle, i think the key thing here is we got to point out the defects of this bill. >> what bill? >> just consider this. well, either any version of this bill the house bill and any of the senate bills, they're all bad. they all have one thing in common, more than 20 million lose health care, they destanee made medicaid.

i come from a state where you do, we have maul towns and rural areas thousands of people in one county got health care. i was in fulton county, president trump got 11% of the vote. they they will rip it away from 600. no matter how you slice it. it's a terrible bill for the middle class. it's a terrible bill for people with disabilities. so we have to keep engage income this debate to make sure the american people know what's at stake. >> so set e get specific, for me, senator, what are you personally doing to keep pressure on the republican ossen the fence, have you talked over the weekend with rob portman, for example, have you had a conversation with senator murkowski? what are you doing to make that happen? >> making the case, all across pennsylvania. >> you are speaking with them? >> all across our state. and as much as i can do beyond our state by ways of interviews and engagement. this isn't going to work where you walk up to a republican senator and say, you shouldn't

repeal the bill and there is why. it's just not grand jury to work that way. they have -- owe it's just not going to work that way. they have to hear from their own people. on medicaid, for people with disabilities, young children and seniors on that program alone, i think people fixed out over the last couple of months that it's not a "them" program, it's an "us" program. that's medicaid. i think republicans are starting to hear that. >> i have to ask about this letter from health secretary tom prices saying the health and human services department may have violated several acts, including the anti-lobbying act, the hack act, et cetera, using taxpayer funds to lobby against the affordable care act. do you think hhs broke the law? >> i don't think there is any question that there should be a review as to whether or not they did. look, i was the auditor general of pennsylvania. i know what it's like to examine what a statute says about what

an agency of the federal or state government is supposed to do or in this case do something in contravention of. that they are using taxpayer dollars to persuade people not to enroll in health care. if that's a violation, someone should be prosecuted. even if it's not a technical violation, it is wrong, it is wrong and it's against the interests of people that should have the security of health care from people, by the way, in the federal government who have health care. members of congress that have it, people in executive branch agencies, they have health care, their families have health care, why would they spend taxpayer dollars or use taxpayer dollars to persuade people not to have health care? it may be illegal, it doesn't matter if it's illegal, it's dead wrong. >> senator casey, i got to get you on another big deadline of the day, which is happening with the attorney general over at the department of justice, you voted against your former attorney general jeff sessions, are you

expecting to vote for another ag soon? >> i don't know, it's a strange set of circumstances it seems by the hour the president is denigrating his attorney general. it's bizarre, but it's the typical chaos from president trump and his administration, which erodes confidence in government itself. instead of being straight with the american people, if he has a complaint about jeff sessions, he should tell people what it is and take action to rectify that. but all have you are these bizarre statements be i the president which doesn't help anyone. we need to have a justice department which is working every day to make sure the american people are protected enforcing the law, instead we have more chaos on top of these bizarre statements by the president. >> there is a lot happening in walk. you got this health care battle on capitol hill, potentially this russia sanctions bill tonight. you got these issues related to the russia investigation the

special counsel, jared kushner coming to the hill. democrats are choosing this moment now to roll out the new economic message. is that a mistake? do you think there is oxygen or appetite for that message given everything else happening in washington? >> i think it's critical. as much as people are concerned about the issues you talked about. by the way the health care is a jobs issue, a lot of health care jobs will be lost in our state as many as 10,000 in rural pennsylvania according to some of the estimates. having an economic message on a regular, in a regular fashion, talking about jobs, talking about opportunities critical not only to our party but i think for the country. >> senator bob casey, thank you very much for joining us and representing pennsylvania there on this show. attorney general jeff sessions under fire, obviously, as we have been talking about, president trump taking on a member of his own cabinet. so we want to talk about the strategy here from some folks who might know something about it after the break.

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it's looking up, not down.ng fit's being in motion. boost® high protein it's intelligent nutrition with 15 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. boost® the number one high protein complete nutritional drink. we're keeping up the conversation here about what is going on over the department of justice, with jeff sessions under fir now from president trump. you remember the president calls his ag beleaguered. it's the president doing the beleaguering, very visibly online, starting very early this morning, the president punctuating his remarks with exclamation points, capital letters, very weak position on

hillary clinton crimes, i want to bring in the former panel with us. the gang is all here. stanley, i'll start with you. give me your reaction. are you somebody who has been in the doj. what is your sense of what is happening over in that building dpimpb what we saw this morning from the president? >> well, i think they see the matter pretty much the way the president does, by that i mean the president's problem is not with jeff sessions as jeff session's lawyer, personal friend or attorney general for that matter, it is with jeff sessions as someone who cannot talk to mr. mueller, the special prosecutor t. president is looking for a way to contain the special prosecutor. he's not upset with sessions and all this talk about not going after hillary is a trial balloon to check with his base to see how upset if he did, in fact, fire sessions, his objective is not that. >> you think the ends game is

essentially trying to get eight at bob muler? >> oh, absolute lit. he has 100 problems that are huge, but none ensurmountable except one, that is the special prosecutor. now he has no one who can say to the special prosecutor, at least not at the attorney general level, look, you have a mandate. you have to stick to the mandate t. mandate is russia. in trump's head there is no crime in russia. ten months of investigation, no crimes. this will go and and on, if he has to live with this a while, it's a pain. it doesn't result in something that's cataclysmic. on the other hand if the special prosecutor is able to do as he now is showing he is able to do any kind of investigation whether it is banking, financials, real estate, anything on the earth, it's a blue dress so to speak, it is not white water. it's a blue dress, if there is such a thing, that's a dagger at the president's heart. what he has to look for is someone who can help contain

that. at the moment he didn't have that because his attorney general is recuse. >> i want to bring all of this out since the "today" show this morning where jerry bash was on, he says what's happening is obvious, the president is trying to twitter shame jeff sessions into firing. his advice is don't quit, ma tick president man up and do it, himself. >> absolutely. it's remarkable that jeff session has so far stayed on given how unusual it is for the president to publicly attack the attorney general. the other question is what is trump's end game, it's not just about jeff sessions this is looking for an opportunity to fire special counsel mueller. we saw paul ryan not really expressing concern over firing jeff sessions. i think republicans on capitol hill would be a lot more concerned if trump were to take action to fire mueller. you've already we heard many of them publicly criticize even the potential for trump to go down that path. >> look, a couple this i think so to keep in mind about

sessions, first, he had been in d.c. for a couple of decades, he is an inside player. he's a prideful guy to boot. but a guy who understands the internal politics of all of this i don't think he's going to step aside. he has no reason to step aside. >> very quickly in a sentence what does it do to morale at the doj? >> it puts people on edge, they are not interested in the drama as much as getting their work done. i don't think that you can -- i don't think that firing him and putting in a new guy in there necessarily solves the problem. because if you have to fire mueller in order to contain mueller, that's a much bigger problem. what you want to do is try to make sure that mr. mueller lives with the mandate and doesn't go beyond it. i don't think you necessarily want as your strategy to actually fire mueller because it's then we've got watergate all over again or the prospect of it. >> thank you for joining us here

from fork. we are going to come back after the break with much more on health care, because there have been just in the last few minutes some potential developments or a step towards potential developments. we will bringing in the health reporters to talk to you after the break. delicious... fresh fruit. it's perfection. seriously? an epic soundtrack? is there any other way? that's what a smoothie should taste like. visit a store today for fresh fruit smoothies and summer deals.

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we're going to head back to capitol hill because there's a lot of stuff happening in the snaxt including we heard from a representative from manafort, sifti sitting with the senate intelligence committee. it happened this morning and he sat down and answered those questions fully. that is just one of the headlines coming out of the hill. the other, of course is on health care and we have a little developing news. garrett hake is joining us now. i hear there's something called skinny repeal. put this in english. what does that even mean? >> reporter: sure, skinny repeal is an idea that republicans think might get the 50 votes they need to pass. the idea to repeal the minimal amount of abomb obama care to g votes, get rid of the individual mandate for people to buy insurance and employer mandate for your employer to provide

coverage of a certain size and get rid of perhaps the medical device tax or one or two of the other taxes that are associated with obamacare that conservatives in particular don't like. idea here, what are the absolute core elements that republicans could agree on getting rid of it and could get 50 votes and kick this thing over to a conference committee and sort it out. >> this is not the last we'll be seeing you of you today. last thoughts? >> it's clear that trepublican leaders do not have the 50 votes they need and my takeaway, it's remarkable they are still going to go ahead with this procedural vote not even knowing what they plan to vote on. >> skinny repeal will never happen. >> that's it. precise, and brief. how i like it. coming up, we'll be back with today's big picture. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. we'll be with him all day as he

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vatican. the famous fountains there no more runneth over, at least for now. the fountain will be turned off along with 100 others because of a drought there that has gone on longer than anyone thought. rainfall down significantly there. the photographer here for the ap. i will be post being today's big picture on my facebook and twitter an snapchat as i do almost every day except for yesterday. i got too slammed to put it up. you'll get a double dose of the

big picture online at least for today. that does it for us. i'll toss it over to stephanie ruhle and ali velshi in new york. >> i'm trying to think back to when it wasn't a busy news day. >> we'll tweet that at you. have a great morning. going to be a busy one. good morning, everyone. >> i'm stepanie ruhle it is tuesday, july 25th. >> what a dramatic morning this is turning out to be. >> did you answer of the questions? >> his contacts with russia during the campaign. >> i did not kol lewd with russia. >> i don't think we can accept that at face value. we have to take it with a grain of salt. >> as a scout law says, a scout is trustworthy and loyal -- we could use more loyalty, i will tell you that. >> he is certainly frustrated and disappointed in the attorney general for recusing himself.